MOR Independent Reading: November
Tyler Goodspeed and Julia
Seibel
Mrs. Disher
AP Literature
December 1, 2017
Ajax
Sophocles introduces the play, Ajax, with in medias res by
throwing us right into a problem Odysseus is trying to solve. The play begins
in the final year of the Trojan War with Odysseus searching for the man who
killed the livestock of the Greeks. As
Odysseus tracks his quarry, the goddess Athena speaks to him saying, “I’ll tell
you this: Ajax did those killings.” (Pg 7. 46). Odysseus is baffled by Ajax’s
seemingly senseless and rash act. However, Athena enlightens Odysseus by
reminding him that Ajax wanted the divine armor of Achilles, but it was given
to Odysseus instead. This threw Ajax into a fit of rage which causes him to
travel to the tent of Agamemnon and Menelaus to kill them. However, Athena
stops Ajax by putting him into a killing rage and fooling his mind into believing
that that the animals were Agamemnon and Menelaus. Odysseus is horrified by the
new disposition of Ajax and tries to leave when Athena calls for Ajax. Athena,
however, makes Odysseus stay as she plans to fool Ajax and punish him for his
foolishness. While I believe Ajax should be punished for his actions, I do not
believe humiliating and mocking Ajax is an appropriate response. Ajax wronged
the Greek army and should be punished with the laws of the army, not by the
gods themselves. Athena is a goddess and has the ability to do whatever she wants;
however, this may be a bad plan to punish Ajax. What do you think Julia? Do you
think Athena should be the one punishing Ajax? And what do you think Athena
will do to humiliate him? Hopefully, we can learn more about Ajax and his path
as we continue to read the play.
I think that it is interesting that you think that Ajax wronged the Greek army (although I do think that a slap on the wrist is needed for killing all of the bacon), because I believe that it was actually Ajax that was wronged.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ajax should have received the armor, and was wronged simply because Odysseus had a goddess on his side. Without divine intervention, Odysseus would not have been as influential as he was. And referring to what you said earlier, since Athena is a goddess and, "has the ability to do whatever she wants..." why doesn't she restore the dead livestock with a snap of her fingers? I believe that Athena and Odysseus are just messing with Ajax, and waving it his face that he was not honored with the amor.
I am not too sure what I think that his punishment and humiliation will be, but I believe that it will tie in with his honor and his pride, since in Greek culture that is what the easiest way to cripple any man.
So far, I am on Ajax's side, so when he says to Athena after his crazed mind was cleared, "Such vaunt is mine. I disclaim not that glory" (pg. 13). I am thoroughly pleased with his response. Ajax does seem like the man to exact revenge, but he also the man who admits when he is wrong, and feel ashamed over the disgrace he has caused.
The chorus in the middle was made up of sailors, who elaborate on how low Ajax has been brought by Athena and fate. Did he deserve to be punished so badly already seeing as he is a (war) hero?
However, what irks me the most in this section, is the instant reaction of Ajax's wife, Tecmessa. She instantly reacts, after listening to the sweet words of the chorus, "...madness has seized our glorious Ajax: he is ruined and lost" (pg. 18). She has not heard Ajax's side to the story yet, why does she act so rashly?
I believe that Ajax will not react to well to this in time come. Do you think that it was right for his wife to react this way?
I can't wait to read on :)
It is hard to say if Ajax deserves this fate or not as he was on his way to murder the two leaders of the Greek army, yet he had a good reason to do so. I agree that Tecmessa’s reply is irksome, but Tecmessa was there when Ajax was killing those animals and is probably scared for Ajax and his state of mind. However, I disagree with the fact that Odysseus is trying to mess with Ajax. Odysseus has always been a wise man and genuinely does not want to see Ajax dishonored despite Ajax being his enemy.
ReplyDeleteAs Tecmessa finishes her monologue, we receive more dialogue between the Chorus, Ajax, and Tecmessa. Ajax is revealed to be in his tent among the animals he slaughtered needlessly in the night. Ajax then laments how he has been dishonored by the gods despite the Chorus arguing of how great Ajax is.
Tecmessa is distressed by Ajax’s desperate state crying out, “How hard it is for me to hear this man, this worthy man, say things he’d never say before this happened.” (Pg. 24. 482-484) Ajax continually laments how far he has fallen which is quite annoying and makes me wonder why he doesn’t go out and change his fate. Despite his self-depreciating words, The Chorus and Tecmessa continue to stand by Ajax and try and encourage him. I am especially impressed with Tecmessa who tries her best to love and support Ajax despite him putting her down and forcing her to be submissive. I think Tecmessa is a strong woman role despite the idea at the time that women should do whatever men say.
What about you, Julia? Do you like Tecmessa as a supportive spouse? And do you think Ajax is being over-dramatic or is he in distress over his loss of face and pride? Can’t wait to finish this book!
I will agree that Odysseus is a wise man--however I do think that without the help of Athena, he would still be stranded on an island and tormented by Poseidon.
ReplyDeleteI guess I do like Tecmessa as a supportive wife, and I really appreciate her looking out for her family especially her child. I will admit though that she still irks me as a character, but I feel that any concerned mother might respond in this way. Now with Ajax, I do not feel that he is being too dramatic, rather I feel as if he is acting like a true Greek. I feel that ay Greek man, when reacting to something negative that has happened, truly acts over dramatically--but that is the way of the Greeks, so he seems to act pretty normally to me.
Now, let's move on. After Ajax finishes his conversation with his wife and the chorus, he moves on to bury the sword from Hector and to purify himself. His reaction to purify himself truly makes me feel that he feels bad for his actions, as true as he wanted to be. Throughout the monologue that Ajax makes, he laments his actions and professes that he feels misery for what he has done, "Soon haply you shall hear, with me, for this misery 'tis most well" (pg. 37). How does this make you feel about Ajax's character?
After he leaves a messenger arrives and informs Tecmessa about how Ajax has been prophesized to die if he left his house. But he already had left! do you think that this is the doing of Athena? do you think that maybe this is why Athena vouched so much for Odysseus to have the armor, because fate had Ajax dying? Why do you think he was fated to die I guess is the real question of the hour... So excited to read on and hear your thoughts!
I think Ajax is an honorable man and a true Greek, however, I know Ajax’s pride will not allow him to escape this dishonor so easily. I do not think Athena had anything to do with the prophesy concerning Ajax, but she does favor Odysseus and is the goddess of wisdom so I believe she knows of the prophesy and wants Odysseus to benefit from Achilles weapons. I believe all men are fated to die and Ajax is destined to have the classic and tragic death of a hero.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of tragic deaths, let’s talk about how Ajax dies. We see him enter with the sword of Hector in his hand and he compares how Hector’s sword will kill him. It is ironic that the sword of Hector, who was killed and treated dishonorably, will kill Ajax, a dishonored man. Ajax then throws himself on his sword and kills himself. After a while, some sailors and soldiers search for Ajax’s body, but cannot find it despite it being in plain view. Tecmessa is the first to find it and cries out, “I’m lost… destroyed… my life is over. O my friends…” (Pg 44. 1063-1064). This tragic scene is highlighted by Tecmessa’s reaction and the grief of the followers of Ajax. Tecmessa realizes that Ajax’s actions shall affect her son and rushes of to find him. Meanwhile, Teucer arrives and laments over his brother’s death. He then promises to take care of both Tecmessa and her son. He also makes sure that Teucer will receive a proper burial no matter who comes against him.
We have now seen the death of Ajax! What a crazy scene. What do you think about Ajax’s death? Should he have killed himself? Do you think he will get a proper burial despite his actions? And what will become of Tecmessa and her son?
I LOVE what Sophocles does with the sword of Hector and what you pointed out--it is such an amazing way to provide a new meaning to something that seems almost meaningless.
DeleteThe death of Ajax was very intense and quite dramatic. I think that it was the shame of not receiving the armor, and the shame of being fooled that inevitably killed him in the end. Ajax was physically strong enough to stand through the Trojan War, but in the end, his Achilles heel was pride and honor. (See what I did there? hehe Achilles heel hehe) Answering your questions, I do not believe that Ajax should have killed himself, but it would not have been a Greek tragedy if he hadn't I feel, so in the end his death was fate. I think that because of Teucer he will receive a proper burial, but if it was in the hands of any other man close to him who knew of his recent actions her probably would not have. However, I also believe that Ajax should receive a proper burial because of the fact that he was a war hero who fought for his country. As for Tecmessa and her son, I believe that Teucer will take care of them since they are family, however I am most curious about how the son will turn out. Due to the Greek nature, I feel as if the son could turn out in two ways. One: not care at all about the death of his father and lives his life knowing that his father died but not doing anything about it. Or, two: he grows up with a vengeful side to those who wronged his father by the account of his mother and Teucer, and eventually plans to exact revenge in some sequel worthy fashion. How do you think that he will turn out?
After where you left off in the play, we see Teucer and Menelaus arguing over what to do with the body. I am proud to see that Teucer keeps his word, and fights for the right of his dead half brother to have a proper burial, do to the unwritten law of the gods (as presented in true action form by the SCS AP Lit class with Antigone). However, Menelaus feels differently about giving Ajax a proper burial as he sees him as a dishonorable warrior, "You, sir, I warn you, raise not yonder corpse for burial, but leave it as it lies" (pg. 53).
I do not understand why Ajax is considered a dishonorable warrior, for making a rash decision whilst angry. It is almost like everything that he had done in the war was forgotten, and that Ajax was only judged for his final day which also happened to be the day that he almost killed some Greek leaders. I believe though, that Menelaus can be compared to Creon from Antigone, as they seem to have the same mindset. I also think that Menelaus is salty, because he was on Ajax's list of people to kill, therefore he is declaring that Ajax should not be buried.
What do you think? Do you believe that there is ay comparison between Menelaus and Creon? Do BELIEVE that Ajax should have a proper burial?
We're almost done!!!
When they were arguing over what to do with Ajax’s body, I totally had flashbacks to Antigone! I believe there is a distinct comparison between Menelaus and Creon here as they both refuse to bury their enemies. It’s really cool to see this comparison made in a different play! I believe Ajax’s son will grow up and try to take vengeance for his father’s death as that would be the Greek thing to do.
ReplyDeleteAfter Teucer fights off Menelaus, he then must argue with Agamemnon over Ajax’s burial. Agamemnon immediately annoys me as his speech seems unnecessary and stupid considering all Ajax has done for him. Teucer recalls the times Ajax risked his life to protect Agamemnon saying, “This man here can’t even manage a few words, Ajax, to celebrate your memory, and yet you often risked your life protecting him.” (Pg 62. 1529-1531). This upsets as me as Agamemnon seems to have conveniently forgotten about Ajax’s heroic deeds. I agree that both the kings are upset over being the target of Ajax’s wrath and want to dishonor him in death. I am thoroughly impressed with Teucer and his unwavering stance to give Ajax a burial.
As things come to the breaking point, Odysseus comes in to save the day. Here, we see the wisdom and true nobility of Odysseus as he fights for Ajax’s burial. This is amazing since Ajax almost certainly hated Odysseus and he knew this, yet he chose to honor the dead.
This scene is one of my favorites as we see the true colors of Teucer and Odysseus and what noble men they are. What about you Julia? Do you like Odysseus and Teucer as people and their unwavering conviction? Also Odysseus wants to give Ajax a proper burial, but do you think Ajax would do the same? This has been an awesome play and I can’t wait to finish!
Oh man, I can't help but say that now I really like Odysseus. His determination along-side Teucer to give Ajax a proper burial is respectful and honorable; so yes I must say I like it. To answer you second question, I do believe that Ajax would have buried Odysseus, despite their differences. I believe that Ajax is not one to not provide the proper rights to the dead, seeing as he was a great soldier-so I think that he would have done it in the end. I mean he buries a sword, what's the difference with a person? (besides there being a pointy end to stab yourself with?)
ReplyDeletePicking up where you left off, we see Odysseus finally persuade the other men to allow Ajax to have a proper burial. Odysseus says two different things that both really sad out in a conversation with Agamemnon, the first being, "It is not righteousness to outrage a brave man dead, not even thou hate him. ...Yes; but I hated while hate was honorable" (pg. 65). I believe that you nailed it when you said that this scene truly reflects the nobility and wisdom of Odysseus. This scene truly shows how just of a king that Odysseus is and how even differences between him and a man he hated should not come between the burial of a man. The second thing that Odysseus says that stood out to me was, "This man was once my foe, yet he was noble" (pg.66). Although noble could mean two different things, I believe that in this context, Odysseus means "having or showing fine personal qualities or high moral principles and ideals."
After the argument is won by the side of Odysseus and Teucer, Teucer begins to make plans and arrangements for the burial of Odysseus. It does not surprise me that Odysseus will not attend the the burial, but it shows how great of a man that Odysseus must truly be to fight for someone to have the proper rights that they deserve, when Ajax couldn't stand up for himself.
This play has been such a great read. Although I would have liked to have seen Ajax a little more in a play named after himself, I believe that the overall moral is that you cannot judge people based on one mistake, rather it be their their actions over time that you judge them upon.
Thanks for being my partner!
Hmm, wishing for more of the title character...like in Antigone as well? Maybe it's like naming a play after a topic; then we see how the topic (er, title character's actions) influence the rest of the characters. You two do a good job of picking up the threads of theme as you go along, until your last few posts really drive into the idea of honor as a determining factor in everyone's actions, not just Ajax's. (Also, in the early posts especially, remember you are both reading the same book and therefore should not need to summarize for each other. Thanks.) Good analysis too of the family, Tecmessa, her son, and Teucer, and their special perspective on how Ajax's recent actions should not define him. Grade on Pp.
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